Curse

lyra_song · Jan 21, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

I think EVERYONE should do this experiment, and track everything in an excel sheet and lets all compare notes.

Do it all seperately, Prophecies. Factions. Nightfall.

-Time spent
-drops (screencap your loot after every mission finished)
-money gained
-money spent (armor/weapons/skills/etc)
-any outstanding loot
-# of deaths

KEEP TRACK OF EVERYTHING.

Ferrous Capuchin · Jan 21, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Your playstyle and desires distort your results a bit...I personally would expect full kitted out heroes and main player for an elite player only, not someone who just finishes one campaign. The first time through a campaign someone should be danm happy that they just get an endgame green, they shouldn't expect to have maxed their character and heroes.

In my case, I have 8 characters that have been through Factions with a few that have been through all 3 campaigns, and I don't have any Sup Vigor runes on any of my heroes still. My play style is that I spend zero on my heroes, and give them only found items or bonus/collector items.

With that philosophy, my main characters are rolling in gold and nice armors and gear. I recently did a similar experiment, but didn't spend any fluff on my heroes, and came out of Nightfall with a 40k profit.

It is all in how you waste your gold

Rhedd · Jan 21, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

All I know is that today I got the last 1.9% of my Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographer title (yay for me!), and doing just that netted me a little over 6k.

I kept all materials and sold everything else to the merchant.

6k in less than three hours, not even trying.

I bought 70k of armor a week ago, and playing VERY casually, just hunting Norn points and doing some dungeons, I've already replenished 50k of that. Again, only selling to merchants.

I don't see a reason to complain.

FalconDance · Jan 21, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I agree with nearly everything Red Sonya posted recently.

Over two years ago, I started GW. Lili was the first character I stuck with (and many others have retired even after they successfully campaigned their prospective chapter), and I was convinced that my girls were destined to be permanent acolytes of Our Lady of Perpetual Poverty.

The first mistake I made with Lili was I sold everything before posting her. I figured gold would buy me anything I might need. Wrong - I also needed the materials she had merched. Ok, well. There went my gold reserves. She used whatever bow came her way whilst questing until she PuGed with a couple very nice lvl 20 rangers who were testing their new l33t bows at Northern Wall. Apparently she made quite an impression because at the end, one gave her a really nice bow to use (which later she then passed on to another new ranger she helped at Northern Wall). But that started her love affair with the feathered bow. Remember when that was a rare, sought-after skin?!? (Months later, she scored her own Tarnok's which she still carries as a trophy

)

She earned her stuff. Not to say there weren't generous, kind-hearted persons along the way who gave my girls a weapon or materials (I remember a necro giving mine enough materials and gold for the remaining piece of 15K Bonelace, the skirt, when she pm'd me asking why I didn't have the whole set and I replied I was still working on it). But for the most part, Lili and all the girls for the first year especially, had to earn every gold piece, every better weapon, every bloody hide or ingot of steel by working hard at anihilating the baddies. And they did.

Now, you want to shortcut? You want to cut away all the challenge? Buy a run to wherever and get max armor. That's one of few things I *really* enjoyed about Factions -- you had to unlock the outposts through play, not runs. It's also one of the things I think Anet did totally wrong--opening the North to level 10. Let's just dummy things down some more and take even that away from the players who have made it to the "top". <shrugs>

Back in the day, a set of 15K armor gave you bragging rights. You had achieved something. It was a small visible symbol that you had busted ass to get the materials (or the gold to buy) and get to the required outpost. Now it just means you bought your way (not always - don't get in an uproar - but more often than not). A green weapon usually meant you had a really lucky drop - or had earned enough gold to buy it from another player who'd had a good drop.

Finish the game - whichever chapter - in record time? Did you short cut and go to other chapters and gain Heros or did you solo/PuG/hench it?

You CAN make enough gold to successfully complete any given chapter of GW. I've done it. I've done it - like many people here - with several characters. Now, like many many people here, I have gold and materials and decent weaponry saved back for any subsequent characters or heros. No "farming", no buying eBay gold, no stupendous sales to other players (generally, I use the drops myself or give them to others or merch).

It all depends on what you consider "getting by" and "playing normally". If you isolate yourself from the GW population (not trading, etc), that is not what I would consider normal play. If you completely rune and outfit your heros to the absolute max, that's not what I would consider normal play. (They take their own share of the drops as it is - make them rune themselves

) Actually, only NF and GW:EN use Heros at all - so that itself could be argued as abnormal play.

Dunno. Maybe I'm being a fuddy-duddy and waxing nostalgic for the days when you actually had to play the game to get anywhere. But at least I can say with absolute certainty that you CAN make enough to successfully complete the game - any chapter - on your drops, etc. without resorting to other means.

the_jos · Jan 21, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Before starting this experiment, I firmly believed that playing normally gave nowhere near enough gold to equip a character with the basics needed to play, but after I’ll freely admit that that stance is wrong. By the same token, I still believe that saying a player can get everything they need by playing normally is also incorrect, and that the truth lies somewhere between.

If pressed for a new thesis statement, I would say that playing normally provides more than enough gold to fund an established character, but significant amount of farming or borrowing would be required to establish a new one.

I like these kinds of experiments.
As others pointed, your spending on heroes could probably have been less.
I've done a similar experiment with my Sin, Rt, Para and Derv and all were able to generate enough gold for their basic needs.
With little borrowing I got myself 15K sunspear on my Derv and Para (only some materials that are hard to find in NF), both did not reach the desolation at that time. I've always been a full-party player, so no loot-scaling effects for me.

The main 'issue' is the standards you set for yourself and heroes.
I did not care about runes for a very long time and this saved a lot of gold.
The only character who has Sup Vigor atm is my main, the rest has minor, major or none. Heroes did not get runes or the ones that dropped.
Max weapons? Not worth buying, I used the drops I got.
Think my Derv had partly max and partly collectors armor when going for the 15K.

The newly starting player is in the same situation as I am, with one huge difference: knowledge of what's valuable and what's not.
New players will probably burn too much cash on items/armor that could be obtained otherwise. Or are not really needed.
Unlocked skills for heroes will make a difference, but hench will do in most situations.
Biggest problem would be the Elites, which could be enough reason to take a hench instead of a hero.

From my experience (not documented as well as yours ofc) the game does provide enough resources for experienced players starting a new character that want them to be able to 'survive' on their own.
Pimp the character and the hero and you will burn a lot of gold.
Use gold sinks (like keys) for extra losses.
The inexperienced/new player has a disadvantage, but not as much that he can't afford the stuff he/she needs to get things done.
The lack of gold is probably due to careless spending (as almost every new player would do) and not the lack of income.

zwitterion · Jan 21, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

great examination of an issue which is usually discussed purely in anecdote and conjecture.

there are a lot of posts suggesting cost saving strategies here but as was said in the OP, wouldn't that be kind of counter to the point? just to add a voice for the other, less dedicated type of player... I've got maybe 6 20s and have recreated a few lower level characters in all of the campaigns, and find myself constantly out of cash. I know all you awesome players find it really easy to accumulate vast stacks of platinum just running around the game in your Istani armor with a couple of naked heros but I, and probably a lot of other casual players, take one look at GWs' banquet of easily accessible gameplay and end up with a bunch of different characters, wanting to give them all armor, wanting to give them all pretty much every skill I come across, and definitely NOT wanting to have to go through the game with a fine-toothed comb to finance it.

Don't get me wrong I'll do optional quests here and there but I don't have a work ethic about it, or feel like i need one. I play GWs cos it's a game that defines your success by your choices not your slavish dedication to it *cough*wow*cough*. Now I'm not saying everything should be free or anything stupid like that, just that for me and all the other players who see 'optional' quests as actually 'optional', and log in somewhat casually to play missions and PvP, the game is lived hand (or skill) to mouth, and woe betide he who wants some new armor or a tricked out hero.

Anyway, that was all just to provide another perspective to all the folks who seem to find it inconceiveable that a player could be poor in this game. We can, and a lot of us are. Just depends on how much you take the game at its word when it tells you to "choose your gameplay style".

Jetdoc · Jan 21, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwitterion

Now I'm not saying everything should be free or anything stupid like that, just that for me and all the other players who see 'optional' quests as actually 'optional', and log in somewhat casually to play missions and PvP, the game is lived hand (or skill) to mouth, and woe betide he who wants some new armor or a tricked out hero.

Anyway, that was all just to provide another perspective to all the folks who seem to find it inconceiveable that a player could be poor in this game. We can, and a lot of us are. Just depends on how much you take the game at its word when it tells you to "choose your gameplay style".

If by gameplay style you mean "I choose not to play all of the game", then I completely understand. However, you should also understand that it's highly unlikely that you'll either be able to buy that shiny new armor you crave or have a "tricked out" hero if you choose not to complete the quests that are laid before you. It's your choice, and it's definitely not anyone else's responsibility for the situation that you're in.

If you're cool with that, then I don't see what the problem is.